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Author
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Topic: The end of wad discussions......(REB ?)
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Pytr
Member Posts: 132
From:Netherlands
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 01-01-2001 08:38 PM
  
Hi,
I know I've posted it before but I'd like to give it another try.
If there was a WAD COMPILER, roughly an empty wad with empty slots for 'rock', 'debris', 'shatter', 'lara-animations' etc. And a pool of available wad-objects......You could compile your own wad for the level you intend to build.-The combination of different objects will give you more possibilities than any new wad will ever do.
-Eidos only has to do ONE more effort, in stead of trying to feed hungry levelbuilders with new wads.
-Separate wad-objects are easier to control.(If something doesn't function Eidos doesn't have to redo the whole wad) I would like to know if this is a reasonable option and if not then these where MY last two cents I'm puttin in about this subject. Cheers,
Pytr. IP: Logged |
Reb@Eidos
Administrator Posts: 290
From:
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-04-2001 12:56 PM
To change anything in a WAD file, the entire WAD has to be reoutput by the WAD editor (otherwise know as animeditor). To reoutput anything you must have ALL the objects and animations for the WAD you want to change. Each object and or animation is a project file containing about six individual files, so you can imagine how many files are needed for each WAD. Also, the animeditor is not as easy to use as the roomeditor - without documentation it would be virtually impossible to use and to create the documentation would be a nightmare. It is a given that there are bugs and workarounds when using proprietary software, but to release it as it is to the public would be pointless since it would be pretty useless without all the necessary files and/or instructions for use.....the bottom line is that it doesn't look like Core will be able to release the animeditor. [This message has been edited by Reb@Eidos (edited 01-04-2001).] IP: Logged |
Chaoslord
Member Posts: 54
From:Lisbon, Portugal
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 01-04-2001 04:15 PM
Just helping 
hey Reb, but isn't it true that it works?
if it does, we can learn it
it can't be that hard,
it will just a little of good-will from the core guys (i am not complaining) to release animeditor (i seen some screenshot somewhere)
so, core ppl, do your magic
make your fans happyer one more timeIP: Logged |
Number6
Member Posts: 41
From:CANADA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-04-2001 07:49 PM
About releasing complicated software...we have made un-official level editors from only file format and existing game files. Also there is an Item program that takes complete objects from one level to another (like snowmobile in Venice.)Why not trust us with this "complicated" wad editor? As always, those that can do, will. The rest will rave and rant. Or even better, why not send to selected prgrammers the file structure for all those (WAD and each individual object series of files) and let them make their own editor. You'd be surprised. As for documentation, let the user just describe what they are doing for a complete WAD compile and let us figure things out...what a sweet revenge, heh! IP: Logged |
Number6
Member Posts: 41
From:CANADA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-04-2001 07:53 PM
...one more thing...Not to spill the beans on this but... I know a few guys are trying to write a WAD exploder that would break any wad into its constituent objects. Maybe they won't end up with six files per objects but they will end up with a library and then they will figure out a way of building new objects...just like they did with the first three TRs. So... IP: Logged |
maniac44
Member Posts: 78
From:San Francisco CA USA
Registered: Apr 99
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posted 01-04-2001 08:12 PM
Being someone who has actually used the Anim Editor (I used it while working on Tomb Raider: The Lost Artifact), I can say that the program is NOT "general public friendly" (a pain in the butt to use). But the most important thing about the Anim Editor is that it can NOT take apart a WAD file (a WAD file is like a TR4 file, once it's made, you can't take the objects out of it). Each object is 6-8 files (depending on if there are sounds, animation, etc.). Those files can be anywhere from .5megs to 2.5megs in size per object. So if you wanted 100 objects, you would need to get 100-200megs worth of information. When we received the objects to make Lost Artifact, we received 4 GIGs worth of files. That would be 6-7 CDs of files and would be fairly expensive to produce for sale to the public. So releasing the Anim Editor doesn't seem like a finacially sound option for Eidos/Core. And giving it away would mean doing a download that would take days (even with a fast connection). That doesn't mean the Anim Editor will never be released. But the aforementioned factors have to be considered by Eidos/Core. [This message has been edited by maniac44 (edited 01-04-2001).] IP: Logged |
EmperorRob
Member Posts: 77
From:
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 01-04-2001 08:51 PM
Hey guys, it doesn't matter how good we are or if we could learn it or not. Eidos has made their decision and Reb can't change it.So if he says it's not coming, we're beating a dead horse. Unless you're Tom Green, and then you're humping a dead moose. IP: Logged |
johnboy
Junior Member Posts: 7
From:
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 01-04-2001 11:47 PM
hi reb - if its too difficult a tool for us lamers, why not post the wad data structure and we can code our own......
ok, so tongue in cheek - but its worth a try ;-)[This message has been edited by johnboy (edited 01-05-2001).] IP: Logged |
runningonair
Member Posts: 128
From:London, UK
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 01-05-2001 04:55 AM
Hi Maniac44,I can understand the difficulties of the large file sizes involved. But 1) you may not need 100 or so objects and 2) ISP access is going up quite fast now, I’ve only got ISDN and those sort of file sizes don’t scare me as long as you could down load a bit at a time. Also a lot of people can download stuff at work where they might have a T3 connection or something. Not that I condone such action. ;-) I think it would have to be done over the web. Disks would be looser.
IP: Logged |
Tijay
Junior Member Posts: 19
From:
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 01-05-2001 06:55 AM
Let us stop the discussion about the Wad-Editor. If its too difficult for the most of users - forget it. A normal user wants to get results, and fast. What we need is an small Tool with everybody is able to combine all TR level (1-5) For example look to the small Progs. TrItem and RView. With them you are able to import all Informations from TR 3 into an custommade TR 2 level and so on. At time only TR.1-3 are supportet. If here are good programmers, check this progs. and modifie them to support Tr 4 - 5 , and everybody will be happy. And this Tools are only 300 - 500 KB great!!!! ( BTW. Laras outfit also could be changed easyly.)IP: Logged |
Number6
Member Posts: 41
From:CANADA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-05-2001 10:17 AM
To use it, maybe. Bust suppose we knew what structure each of the 6-8 files had to have, making each separate one could be made with 6-8 Wizard type apps.Then, a wizard type app could just assemble the selection following the WAD structure, following the enumeration in the selection (that is what the WAS is, yes?) with error messages so lamers could use it (albeit patiently). Personnaly, I found I had no patience for doing level. But I loooove programming. So if you had a spare set of file structure lying around (how about zipping an example object or anim or two for us to figure out), I can guarantee that particular tidbit would not have time to touch the water: coding pyrahnnas(sp?) would snap it before... Waiting with baited (?) breath... IP: Logged |
Striffelbuur
Member Posts: 274
From:Amsterdam, NH, Netherlands
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 01-05-2001 12:31 PM
Hiya, quote:
Originally posted by Number6:
To use it, maybe. Bust suppose we knew what structure each of the 6-8 files had to have, making each separate one could be made with 6-8 Wizard type apps.Then, a wizard type app could just assemble the selection following the WAD structure, following the enumeration in the selection (that is what the WAS is, yes?) with error messages so lamers could use it (albeit patiently). Personnaly, I found I had no patience for doing level. But I loooove programming. So if you had a spare set of file structure lying around (how about zipping an example object or anim or two for us to figure out), I can guarantee that particular tidbit would not have time to touch the water: coding pyrahnnas(sp?) would snap it before... Waiting with baited (?) breath...
While we're at it, why not attempt to make an open-source Java-based multi-player TR-clone? ;-) Anyway, I do agree... Best regards,
Striffelbuur. IP: Logged |
Ocasious
Member Posts: 114
From:North Hollywood,CA. U.S.A.
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 01-05-2001 12:57 PM
Well dont stop there,,,,let me choose the role of an enemy in certain levels. This would def increase the replay value of any level becuse your actions as the enemy would impact the game play and create different ways of ending a level or how a puzzle piece has to be obtained if the enemy your playing gets it first and so on, and so on.IP: Logged |
fairchild
Junior Member Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 01-06-2001 05:45 PM
.wads? I
learn to use the "make random" floor
modeler in TRLE; it's the cat's a** !
I like the good stuff like this,
check it out!IP: Logged |
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